APG meets with UK Advertising Standards Authority (ASA)
On Thursday, 5 September, APG officers - Chair Philip McGuigan MLA (Sinn Féin), Vice-Chair Robbie Butler MLA (UUP), Secretary Danny Donnelly MLA (Alliance) - together with the Secretariat Will Chambré and Emer Haines, met with representatives from the UK's regulator of advertising, the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA): CEO Guy Parker, Chair Lord (David) Currie, Independent Board Member Dame Rotha Johnston and PA and Media Officer Izzy Dharmasiri, at Parliament Buildings, Stormont.
Following introductions, Philip McGuigan invited the ASA to speak about their role and what they are doing to protect the vulnerable, including children from harmful gambling advertising.
Guy Parker explained that the industry funds the ASA through a voluntary levy. They don’t know which businesses are contributing to the levy, “so it can’t affect our decisions”. ASA regulation, he said, is about the targeting and content of ads. They have a “sophisticated process” for dealing with complaints, which amount to around 40,000 a year with Northern Ireland representing around 2 per cent of this figure.
Philip McGuigan asked if they had a breakdown of the kind of complaints they received. In response Izzy Dharmasiri said they would provide this, including figures on gambling ads, and details of any interesting cases.
Robbie Butler asked how ASA enforced the Adverting Codes. Parker replied that if the ad is found to be in breach of codes, they tell the advertiser to stop running it. He added that enforcement is not tricky when it comes to gambling advertisers. They “almost always comply” - although that’s not to say there are not cases of non-compliance.
Butler asked if an ad originates in ROI but is targeted at NI, does ASA regulate it. Parker replied that responsibility would sit with their sister body, ASA for Ireland. Although in the case of emails originating in ROI targeted at individuals in NI they would have responsibility for that. The point is, Parker said, NI citizens have recourse to ask the ASA to take action. In a follow-up, Robbie Butler said “Irrespective of where the ad is generated?”. In reply, Parker said not necessarily. There are jurisdictional tests ASA apply to seek to stop “game playing and skirting of regulations” – the operators are licensed somewhere and if they try mask their activities, the ASA will look at who is receiving the ad and determine if the Codes are engaged.
Parker explained that they had put in place new rules covering under-18s ahead of the last men’s World Cup, which established a ‘strong’ appeal test. Robbie Butler asked if retired footballers like Jamie Carragher were covered by this rule. Lord Currie replied that they had, for example, looked into Peter Crouch and determined he did not have strong appeal to under-18s. Parker added that they had also looked into Gary Neville and determined that he did have strong appeal. Lord Currie added that “a lot of hard thinking” goes into considering this and offered to provide MLAs information on those judgement.
McGuigan said that he thought Peter Crouch and managers like Jurgen Klopp would have strong appeal and asked about recent past managers and players – how do you distinguish? Parker replied that he “didn’t know Jurgen had appeared.” Will Chambré (Secretariat) explained that Klopp had appeared in content marketing. To which Parker said “Ok, well it is a complicated area”. He explained that one of the factors they took into account when making a judgement on the Peter Crouch and Gary Neville cases was the number of U-18 social media followers they had.
Danny Donnelly asked if the ASA used a “percentage threshold” when it came to followers. Parker replied, “No we haven’t publicly said what the threshold is” – the guidance says “significant” and we can “interpret” that. Dame Rotha Johnston added that its important to note that in the guidance it’s not just relative, it’s absolute i.e. a sports star with an “enormous” social media following but with a small percentage of u18 followers (e.g. 7 per cent) might not be OK.
McGuigan asked if there were aspects of the law the ASA would like tightened regarding the regulation of advertising. And further asked if gambling advertisers were using ”influencers or YouTubers” to get round the guidelines covering gambling advertising to target u-18s. Parker replied that it does happen, but that research is on-going to figure out how big of an issue it is. However, he added, “I don’t think we think it’s a major problem”.
McGuigan suggested that the use of influencers might become a bigger issue when gambling advertising within the Premier League becomes more restricted. Parker replied that this is a part of the picture where we need to be on top of the regulation. He added that the ASA doesn’t administer the law – they are operating in the context of the law. They set the content rules that hopefully help to reduce harmful gambling ads – acknowledging that NI was in a transitional phase of gambling reform and adding that gambling advertising is a legal legitimate pursuit. Responding to this, Danny Donnelly said “Not to everyone”.
Will Chambré (Secretariat) explained that when it comes to gambling, Northern Ireland is a “grey market”. He said the Gambling Commission has no powers here. It is down to the police service to enforce the gambling law in NI. In reply, Parker said “Our message to you is that its right that your legislature decides what laws you want”. We are here to work with you within whatever regulatory framework you decide - we will work with you on implementing the law if you bring it in. Will Chambré replied that online and broadcast advertising is reserved matter and that any regulatory changes here won’t happen towards the end of the next Assembly mandate (2027 – 2032).
Parker said that advertising affecting people in NI is not unregulated – they have recourse with the ASA. There is a lot, he said, that the ASA can do to stay on top of online advertising. Their online monitoring system, he added, is key to this. For example, the ASA machine learning system checks gambling ads for people looking under 25.
Danny Donnelly asked if you are proactively “sucking up” ads not just reliant on people complaining. Parker replied that the ASA did.
Will Chambré (Secretariat) asked if a member of the public complains about an ad, is it immediately withdrawn. Parker replied that this isn’t the case. Often complaints, he said, are not upheld – the ASA have a sophisticated assessment process. They resolve a lot of cases informally with businesses and only some are formally investigated. Of the 40,000 complaints received each year, roughly 300 rulings are made with another few thousand resolved informally.
The Secretariat asked how long it took on average for an ad to be withdrawn from when a complaint is received to when a breach of the rules is determined (if there is one). P replied “three months usually but some cases take a lot longer”. Mr Chambré said that he understood that if an ad is found to be in breach of the rules, the advertiser is required to withdraw the ad or make changes to it. However, what happens if they immediately “reoffend” he asked. GP replied that the Gambling Commission “would be on to them”. It has, he added, fined operators for such breaches.
Will Chambré (Secretariat) asked what happened if gambling operators just targeted their ads at NI where the Gambling Commission has no remit. Parker replied that this is “a really good point”. Are these gambling operators subject to the licensing in NI – how does it work? Will Chambré (Secretariat) explained that the Gambling Commission can’t do anything in Northern Ireland – remote gambling operators advertising into NI must be licensed by the GC. Parker asked if there was any evidence of an operator not complying with GC licence rules in NI. Could the GC withdraw their license if this was the case? He didn’t know the answer to these questions, he said.
Philip McGuigan asked if there were any further sanctions available to ASA. Parker replied that there weren’t. The ASA, he explained, is not a statutory body but the Gambling Commission does have powers to further sanction operators – “notwithstanding the issue of NI that you just raised”. And a “formal referral” often makes advertiser comply, however it’s hard to get convictions even against the most egregious advertising offences. While the ASA doesn’t have hard sanctions in most areas they regulate, Parker said, they work with other bodies that do.
Will Chambré (Secretariat) said unfortunately we don’t have a regulatory body for gambling in this jurisdiction – we have the PSNI that can enforce the law and a PPS service that can bring forward prosecution cases but that’s as far as it goes. “What can the ASA do from your perspective better protect our population?”, he continued. Parker asked if this was the big issue in NI, adding that from reading the APG’s recent report it seems they want the standards stronger.
Danny Donnelly asked if ASA was able to make recommendations about tightening laws. Lord Currie replied that they tend not to as a regulator. They can however help government to develop legislation, and would be happy to help to develop legislation in NI and consult. Dame Rotha Johnston added that they had met with Department for Communities (Carol Reid and Ciarán Mee) yesterday (Wednesday, 4 June) on this issue.
Philip McGuigan expressed his concern about protecting children and vulnerable adults from gambling harm. Was there anything specific that the ASA could do to prevent targeting etc., such as using blocking software? Parker replied that blocking software came within the remit of the Gambling Commission. He said he would need to check how ASA would handle cases where individuals have self-excluded and are still receiving gambling ads. Izzy Dharmasiri added that there was a ruling on this where someone was advertised to who had self-excluded. She undertook to share this with the APG.
Philip McGuigan said that as a recovering compulsive gambler, he still receives gambling ads to his email and X accounts - if it’s deliberate it’s an issue. Danny Donnelly added that families have raised this issue specifically with the APG. Parker replied that this might be an issue of the system not working but the ASA could look into this matter formally or informally. Lord Currie added that there are many groups defined as vulnerable in the Codes - and that they plan to extend the range of these. Will Chambré (Secretariat) replied that the message from the APG’s recent inquiry report was that the whole population is vulnerable to gambling harm.
Danny Donnelly asked if they considered gambling the same as alcohol and tobacco. Parker replied that tobacco is different as there is a total ban on ads, whereas gambling, e-cigarettes, alcohol and certain foods all have their own code sections in their codes. Lord Currie added that the ASA reviews those codes over time so can tighten them if the evidence is there - their Code writing group, the Committees of Advertising Practice (CAP), does that work. He added that there is formal guidance on the advertising rules for gambling ads.
Philip McGuigan asked if ASA had any views on a broadcasting watershed for gambling ads or an ‘opt in’ feature on social media platforms to receive gambling ads (two recommendations in the APG’s recent inquiry report). Parker replied that the ASA haven’t discussed these proposals. Dharmasiri added that she hasn’t seen it come up but that it was something to think about and it would be good to bring the APG inquiry report to their specialist and get their thoughts.
Parker added they can send their guidance on vulnerable groups and various other areas, including on loot boxes.
Lord Currie suggested that the ‘Opt in’ feature proposed would be close to a ban. In response to this, McGuigan replied that gambling is evolving, companies are targeting individuals through software, making it even more addictive and this will evolve and pose a greater threat to public health over time. Lord Currie replied that “my point was not whether this was good but that it is a matter for legislation”.
Will Chambré (Secretariat) commented that the ASA are funded by the industry they regulate. In reply, Parker said they don’t try and hide that - they think however self-regulation works in advertising. Lord Currie agreed that “it does work” - it is “a cleverly designed system”. The law needs to come in when you are advertising something bad. Parker further added that industry funding is not unique to self-regulatory bodies, pointing to Ofcom which is funded by companies it regulates but is statutory.
Will Chambré (Secretariat) asked if any consideration had been given to the ASA becoming a statutory body. Parker replied that the ASA got more buy-in and support from these companies because they “have skin in the game”, they feel it’s their system but that doesn’t mean they won’t tighten restrictions, citing the changes made to the appeal test criteria ahead of the men’s Football World Cup. Lord Currie added that CAP sets the code, looks at the evidence objectively: “it’s not in the industry’s pocket”, he added.
Will Chambré (Secretariat) asked if more could be done by the ASA to regulate content marketing targeted at under 18s, for example, preventing use of former sporting stars to promote gambling in social media posts. Danny Donnelly shared with the ASA reps the images of the two social media posts (Jürgen Klopp and cartoon images) provided by Will Prochaska to the APG secretariat, asking if these posts which had strong appeal to under 18s had been picked up by the ASA. Parker replied that he didn’t know whether they are inside or outside the ASA’s remit- “it’s complicated”, he added. He said they would give the copy of the social media posts to their team to review.
Danny Donnelly asked if certain companies pushed the boundaries on gambling ads, citing Paddy Power as an example. Parker replied that Paddy Power had got in trouble with the ASA but not to the extent of Brew Dog, which had been very provocative towards the authorities . Paddy Power’s ads were more about making people laugh. Will Chambré (Secretariat) countered that such humour was appealing to young people, putting them at risk. Philip McGuigan added that added that young people will follow Paddy Power because of their content – he suggested that Pady Power’s social media accounts have a huge young person following, citing the example of his sons talking about Paddy Power’s posts. Parker said it would be interesting to look at data on this but it could be difficult to obtain.
Philip McGuigan suggested that it might be useful to have the ASA present via Zoom to the wider APG at a future formal meeting. Parker said they would be very happy to do so, once the APG’s forward work programme was agreed. In the meantime, Philip McGuigan said the APG may probe the Communities Minister on the grey area surrounding the regulation of gambling advertising in NI and that there may be further questions for the ASA on this. Parker said he would raise this matter with the ASA’s gambling specialist, Andy Taylor who has a close relationship with the Gambling Commission.